While I was at work, I was given a menial task requiring that I extract medical documentation for an audit. Given the mindless nature I decided I needed some background noise and I wasn’t really up for music at that point in the day so I pulled up YouTube and came across this video from Stefan Molyneux titled, “Why I was wrong about Libertarians.”
Yeah, I know. So here’s where I engage a bit in a little virtue signaling over Molyneux. He is basically a personified version of Mike Hihn. No, I am not saying he is a 68 year old shell of a person, waiting for a male nurse to change his diaper while still living in his mother’s basement. What I am saying are his arguments and his approach to principle requires such rigid adherence, it is nearly impossible to apply it in the real world. Nobody can realistically live to such a standard. That said, many of his arguments are very well researched and he does put a lot of effort in building the logical framework to support his conclusions.
I should warn you, it’s mostly him staring into the camera 12 inches from his face in his steely-eyed, condescending, bald white guy with an accent, shtick. Watch the video, (or don’t) but fair warning: it’s almost an hour long.
Since nobody clicks links around here, here’s the Cliff’s Note’s version: In general, we have so little influence over the culture that we seem to believe it, gives us a pass for not living up to principle. Actions speak louder than words, as they say. If we are to preach NAP, but don’t live it, nobody will take us seriously. I’m a Federal worker, so I am very much guilty of this myself. I won’t get mad if you call me a mexican slaver, it’s probably true. To his credit, he does give an example or two where we can make such a change.
Specifically what hit me is around the 6:30 mark where he talks about spanking your children.
Does spanking violate NAP? Molyneux seems to think so. I find this a bit problematic because I have spanked my children in the past, mostly because I was spanked as well. I approached libertarianism from the cultural right like many. Yes, like nearly all Hispanics (or whatever adjective you prefer), I am Catholic and that authoritarian “there are rules to life” attitude, coupled with a patriarchal culture, generally means corporeal punishment fell neatly into the child rearing toolbox. Plus, since I was often around 18-19 year olds in the Air Force and working on high voltage power lines, it was a handy tool as an NCO, as well, because NCOs are often surrogate parents. It’s quick, to the point, and most importantly, the idea that you did something wrong has a tendency to stick around for a while—quite literally, because it hurts. Great for that stupid Airman looking to get himself electrocuted. I also go for hand slapping, and egregious offenses (mostly Airman) got a hand to the occipital bone; they recover quickly.
Yet, violence begets violence. While nobody died on my worksite, a fact I am still somewhat proud of given the tendency for high voltage military assets to explode due to operator error, I could have easily been charged with assault. I was called to my son’s school when he punched a kid for reasons he still won’t tell me. Growing up, one of the few memories of my dad was my being scared to death after I talked back. My youngest son is now the same age I was from that memory. I could be a terrifying figure as he is one tenth my size.
The easiest way to create another libertarian is to be one in front of your children; chances are they will emulate you, so to make a long story short, that douchebag has a point.
Which brings me to last Saturday. My oldest son has a book filled with random projects he can build with household items. One of them he was interested in was the classic, potato powered light bulb. We decided to take it a step further by assembling a small lamp powered by a Bagdhad Battery.
Off to the hardware store we go with my six year old daughter deciding to tag along. Now, my relationship with my daughter is much different than my two sons. I don’t believe children bond with their parents as an infant; it comes about 3-4 months later when they begin to walk and interact with the world. I was in Iraq while my oldest son was that age so there is something…missing. That same thing is missing between my wife and daughter, as my wife was in Afghanistan while she was that age–my daughter and I are very close. So we get to Ace Hardware, I pay for our material, we hop back in the Jeep, and head home.
She took a long time hopping out of the Jeep and had a curious gait walking back into the house. I stopped her, and asked what she was hiding and she says, “Nothing.” I asked again, pointing out she has a square item hidden under her dress, that she is holding in her hand and she again replied, “Nothing.” I pull up her dress (don’t go there) and reveal a small tin of Altoids. She then proceeded to tell me that my sister gave her that and said she could eat it in the car.
Bullshit. NOBODY EATS IN MY CAR.
Oddly enough, when I told my wife what happened she told me that she shoplifted on occasion until the age of ten, which added another WTF to my weekend.
Eventually, I got it out of my daughter that she found it at the hardware store in the impulse buy section and she slipped it under her dress while the cashier and I were verifying that I cut my body length of stranded, #14 AWG copper wire, exactly 71 inches, priced appropriately at $0.49/foot. I could’ve slapped her hand then but I decided not to. You people are always complaining that there are no libertarian women, so maybe I’ll try to do my part. Don’t get any bad ideas OMWC…
I first told her since she was going to steal from the store, I was going to steal from her. I had her pick her favorite shoes (she likes shoes) and set them in a box. I then considered this was non-productive because her favorite shoes are silver boots, and since we live in Phoenix she won’t wear them until October, anyway. This also creates a double standard a six year old can recognize. I settled for making her watch her brothers eat strawberry shortcake that evening.
This upset her, so I took her to her room and explained to her why she wasn’t getting cake. The lesson however, was the can of mints was an item for sale. Selling the mints means the store gets money for the mints. If the store has money, they can continue to stay open and sell more mints for people that want them. If enough people want or need mints, the store will have to hire people to be able to stock and sell these mints. To sum it up for a 6 year old, she was stealing from the workers, because the mints pay their salary. She was stealing from the store owner (ACE is a franchise, it’s why I shop there), the cranky old man in the back that makes keys, because the mints help pay his lease and his livelihood. Finally, she was stealing from me, because all crime is the theft of something valuable. In this case, she stole my trust.
She was crying after that so in a way, maybe I did hit her. She recovered fairly quickly and is still a six year old pixie.
How’d I do?
Well this is bullshit. I was expecting videos on a …um, different…kind of spanking.
Are you channeling OMWC?!
Oh, man. I Hadn’t even thought of that. Now I’m gonna have to pull an Eichenwald and google “spanking hot chicks with a paddle” just so everybody knows it exists.
“Hey banjos, look at this! I told you there was such a thing!”
Is he specifically arguing with Reason? Who are really not libertarians? Because most libertarians I know agree that while not a libertarian, Trump is doing more things we like than any other president, in like… forever…
I am not sure who he is arguing with. (I assume you mean Molyneux.) I am trying to listen to the video and I am not sure who his beef is with. He made a floating head reference though. Hmmmm.
Here’s some interesting perspective on the middle east from a guy who lived it. It’s like the ultimate form of indoctrination that he’s talking about. No wonder Muslims are the favorite special new snowflakes for the left, they’ve achieved a level of human herd animal that the left can only dream of.
That other guy with the awesome facial hair interviews disenchanted Muslim guy
You did fine. Although I would have lit her ass up with a spanking. Kids by that age know they’re stealing. If they didn’t, they’d not feel the need to conceal it and then lie about it when discovered. So she committed three egregious errors in a row. As far as I’m concerned, those are three strikes and she’s out…on a child punishment spectrum. And those three in aggregate mean a spanking and being sent to her room for the rest of the night with no toys and no tv.
Am I an asshole? Nope. well, not for that anyway.
Like I said, my relationship with my daughter is different than my sons. I have no problem hitting my youngest because he doesn’t quite get cause and effect yet. My oldest doesn’t really care what I think. I might be able to reason with her.
In the end though she hasn’t tried stealing anything else, at least not around me.
I don’t know what kind of punishment is most productive, I just know that she’ll like the punishment her parents devise much better than she’ll like what the cops and judges will end up doing to her if she keeps up that behavior.
Which is of course a key argument for strong parental discipline – not that the anti-spanking brigade thinks of it that way.
To the faux-humanitarians (to paraphrase Sowell) it’s never about tradeoffs, it’s about SOLUTIONS, and SOLUTIONS are what make the solution-haver feel good about themselves.
I don’t have children but I do not plan on hitting them unless I really have to. My girlfriend on the other hand is black so I doubt they’ll make it through 3rd grade with both their eyes.
You have a black girlfriend and she’s not already pregnant?
She’s not even pregnant yet!
Or barefoot! White privilege!
I feel like an asshole for laughing at that.
I hope he knows I was just making an off-color joke based on racial stereotypes and that I’m no racist.
The only racist around here is me, dammit.
As a mexican, I can assure you that it is not racist to stereotype, as stereotypes exist because they often have their basis in truth.
Well they still live together.
They need a good beatin, trust me on this one. There really is some good wisdom in religious texts no matter how otherwise stupid it is. Spare the rod spoil the child. Yeah, you don’t like that beatin, but you need that beatin. Worldwide helicoper parents *faint*. Vyrus *learns wisdon*.
I didn’t get beat very often as a child and I think I turned out alright. It would be hypocritical of me to beat my children a lot in my opinion unless I managed to pop out a real bad seed.
My oppositional defiant disorder was a direct result of beatings. Proto-libertarian ideas click together when you realize if you parent can’t actually convince you that you did something wrong without violence they’re doing a shit job parenting.
I should qualify that this is not an argument in favour of them.
See, this is why Titor needed more beatins.
They’ve been doing a shit job parenting. It takes years of fucking up as a parent to wind up feeling the need to crack the kid to correct his behavior. At that point, maybe smacking him is the only option left, but that doesn’t absolve the parent of lousy parenting up to that point.
Also, Adam West died.
Don’t make the United Nations sad!
From a 2014 report by the UN Human Rights Committee on the human rights situation in the United States:
“Corporal punishment
“The Committee is concerned about corporal punishment of children in schools, penal institutions, *the home* [emphasis added] and all forms of childcare at federal, state and local levels. It is also concerned about the increasing criminalization of students to deal with disciplinary issues in schools (arts. 7, 10 and 24).
“The State party should take practical steps, including through legislative measures , where appropriate, to put an end to corporal punishment in *all settings.* [emphasis added] It should encourage non-violent forms of discipline as alternatives to corporal punishment and should conduct public information campaigns to raise awareness about its harmful effects. The State party should also promote the use of alternatives to the application of criminal law to address disciplinary issues in schools.”
Here is their membership: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/MembersByGroup.aspx
When they don’t have nations that tacitly endorse the murder of gays, female genital mutilation and stoning people to death for adultery, I’ll take them seriously.
Ah, you’re thinking about the United Nations Human Rights *Council.*
The report I cited from was the United Nations Human Rights *Committee.*
Look, it’s all very simple, really.
“The Human Rights Council is an inter-governmental body within the United Nations system made up of 47 States responsible for the promotion and protection of all human rights around the globe.”
Whereas on the other hand,
“The Human Rights Committee is the body of independent experts that monitors implementation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights by its State parties.”
It was the Human Rights Committee, the “body of independent experts,” which is concerned about spanking.
I hope that clarifies matters.
It does. You were talking about a different group of cunts.
My bad.
Here are some of the “independent experts” on the Human Rights Committee
TANIA MARÍA ABDO ROCHOLL of Paraguay has a list of degrees as long as your arm, including
“International Master’s Degree in Law, Economics and Sports Management
Université de Limoges, France
Currently writing thesis on: “Vulnerability of human rights in terms of international transactions of teenage footballers”
(2015 – Present)”
Mr. Ahmad Amin FATHALLA – “On home postings he worked mainly in the legal department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs until he became
Deputy Assistant Minister for Legal Affairs and then Assistant Minister for Multilateral Relations responsible for all
United Nations matters. One of his main tasks was the preparation of Egypt’s reports to all United Nations and
human rights bodies, as well as lectures and presentations on United Nations matters. He served in the Permanent
Missions of Egypt in New York (Sixth Committee) and Geneva (Human Rights). He was a member of the Egyptian
team for the Taba Arbitration. He represented Egypt in many United Nations legal forums and assumed the post of
either chairman or vice-chairman of a number of committees or working groups of these United Nations bodies.”
And so forth and so on.
So we can see where they get their expertise on raising other people’s children.
Oh, the Chair of the committee is Mr. Yuji IWASAWA, who among other things is the “Refugee Examination Counsellor for the Japanese Ministry of Justice.”
Is that like the Maytag Repairman?
Or does he recommend the admission of refugees who got spanked by their parents?
Japan took in just 28 refugees in 2016, despite record applications
(I can’t tell if he’s *the* refugee examination counsellor or just one of many such counsellors)
Tacitly endorse?!? Several of those countries openly execute gays.
I have no kids, so instead of giving you my advice I’ll let you know what my dad would have done with me if I had stolen something. He would have marched me back into the store, set the tin down on the counter, and told me to explain myself to the cashier. And I would have preferred 20 spankings to that.
I worked at a Wal Mart where a guy did that with his son, and Wal Mart pressed charges…on the dad.
Well fuck them
The fuck? Seriously?
In fairness, that management crew drove me to apply for a part time job at the local jail, so they may have been assholes.
My current place would probably do that if lp or management found out.
I had one parent come back in with his kid and pay for the candy bar the kid stole. Same situation, i was talking to the dad and he put a snickers in his pocket.
What did they charge the dad with? He didn’t steal anything. That store manager needs fired.
Petty theft. In AZ a minor cannot be held legally responsible for shoplifting, but the “injured” party has the option to press charges against the parent.* Wal-Mart’s corporate policy is to prosecute shoplifters to the fullest extent of the law….It was in Flagstaff, I’m sure one of the many progressive judges tossed it out. Unless they got the only conservative one, in which case its a fine of $2500 and/or 6months in the jail.
*I am not a lawyer and I didn’t stay at a holiday inn express, blah blah blah.
That was the good ol days of common sense, bro. Now that sort of thing needs to be sorted out by the all benevolent state. Thank you progtards and ball less GOP.
“He would have marched me back into the store, set the tin down on the counter, and told me to explain myself to the cashier.”
Same thing would have happened to me and I agree that in a sane world that is the best solution. I But we don’t live in a sane world so no way do I take that chance with my kid today.
Thanks Glibertariatti for publishing my random musings!
Write moar!
What I want to know is whether you’ve been compensated for the promotion of Ace Hardware as a proper libertarian would.
Its only fair, they never got the mints back.
I never had to spank my son as I was the part time parent for most of his life due to his mother being a slut leading to us divorcing when he was young. I was the fun parent. My father spanked me once. I don’t see any NAP violation for disciplining a child for wrong doing. That is how we learn sometimes. I don’t see it as abuse, but I might be old fashioned.
As to shoplifting, I was talked into doing that when I was a kid by a friend. Not because I did not have the money in my pocket to buy gum, but he said it was fun. Being an idiot, I tried it as he suggested. The checkout lady saw me do it. (not that it matters, but she was a Hispanic lady I knew and I was friends with her son) She gave me such a look as I paid for whatever else I was buying, (I don’t remember) and said, “Are you going to pay for that gum in your pocket?” The tone she had and the look she gave me almost made me piss myself. I said, “yes maam”, paid for the gum and that ended my shoplifting career. Reading your post, I know realize I should have been wearing a dress.
Beatings depend on the kid. My mom could’ve beat me twice on week on general principle and it would not have been wrong. I DESERVED every beating she ever gave me and then some. The ONLY reason I am a decent human being is because she took the time to beat the living shit out of me when it was needed. Other kids, you can actually talk to, use shame etc, to get through to them. My ex-wifes oldest son was one of those kids. I don’t think she ever had to raise her voice to him, even when he was little. Just reason and conversation.
How did you do? Well, It’s clear to me that you married into a den of thieves, and the demon seed has been passed down to the next generation. However, I’m quite fond of my own demon seeds. so I can understand your reluctance to root the evil out at its source. In other words, you did just fine.
No idea. My mom tried every trick in the book – including spanking, grounding, etc. – and I was still a bit of a problem child until my early teens. I don’t know if it was anything she did that straightened me out or I just made that decision on my own.
That’s really the entire problem with getting parenting advise from a book, or (God help you) a philosopher. Every kid is different, and needs to be treated as such to some extent. But about the last thing a young parent wants to hear is “try to understand your kid, and learn from your mistakes”. Because that’s a long, messy process.
Upon further reflection I think it’s only fair to assume that she had a big impact on that aspect of mine as with so many others. Perhaps it was just something as simple (or complicated) as following her example. I just can’t point to any specific parenting tactic that “worked”.
7-8yo? – the one time my mom tried to spank me, I got my hand in place – tight fist with the knuckle up – just as she struck. I bruised her wrist. And that was the end of the spanking as she was in more pain than I was.
That’s just the way I roll.
Once when she was about five my oldest was being a bit lippy. Nothing major, I was trying to work with her on something, a toy perhaps, and it was a frustrating experience. Something else went wrong with the project and my kid was about to say something when out of nowhere my wife slapped her across the face.
I was surprised and the kid was devastated. She cried most of the rest of the night.
That was the last time we hit either of them. There’s no way to know what lasting effect that had on her personality.
Neither kid grew up to be a bully and both are pretty empathetic so we didn’t ruin them. But did that last time and the swats before do any good? Absolutely no way to know.
Ok. I’m putting together the ingredients and supplies for a batch of homemade gin. I have 1.75ml of Everclear, distilled water to dilute to 80 proof, 750ml of Smirnoff vodka, wine bottles with rubber corks for decanting. For aromatics, I’m using juniper berries, fresh orange peel, fresh lime peel, cinnamon bark, star anise… and that’s as far as Ive gotten.
I want the gin to obviously have juniper flavor, but I also am envisioning a “summer” flavor, so I want to use plenty of citrus oils. I’m doing research on the aromatics tonight.
I’ll stuff all the ingredients into the bottle of everclear, and let it steep for a week in a cool, dark place. Meanwhile, I’ll drink four bottles of wine this week, and clean the bottles and corks to prepare for decanting. After a week, I’m going to strain the everclear through cheesecloth into the empty wine bottles. Dilute with distilled water to 80 proof. Then, top off with vodka to 90 proof (I like a little kick). Also, the vodka will add a little extra complexity to the flavoring.
Any thoughts or recommendations?
I dunno – I’ve been drinking Grey Skies Barrel Finished Hopped Gin today – this stuff should be outlawed by the UN or something. It’s like the crack of gin.
Yikes, don’t ask me, I took the quiz from the last thread and discovered that I’m a “neo-liberal”. All kidding aside, my Mom was abusive and I’ve never raised a hand to any of my children and they’ve turned out alright. Three out of four are working for the government, raising brats, being normal, functioning people.
The part of Molyneux’s argument I find most convincing is that by having hitting in the tool bag, it becomes easier and easier to just rely on taking a swat at the kid instead of using your other tools. That being said, I’ve also seen parents that tut tut other parents who spank and yet they themselves use manipulative mind games like guilt trips to get the kid to behave. Never hit my kid and have never even come close. She’s a little girl so there’s that. If I had a boy, maybe I’d be all, “You got to be number 1!” *Crack*.
I did say three out of four. The eldest is a layabout with a ninth-grade education and a certain clever way with coding. My girls are are the same but all different in that they wanted baybeeeeez. I hang my head in shame.
I agree, the guilt trips and other emotional manipulation can be just as bad. My problem with spanking and hitting as punishment is teaching kids that its ok to use violence to punish behavior you don’t like. Then you just confuse them when you’re spanking them for hitting a kid who took something from them or something and saying “Don’t hit people.” Plus, I was always more resentful than sorry when I was spanked or swatted. I’m the kind of person who instantly looks to break a rule I think is stupid, though, even if it doesn’t immediately benefit me.
I was spanked and I spanked my daughters. My daughter who has a little girl does not spank her and she is extremely well behaved. It may have helped that after high school my daughter worked for a very good daycare with extensive training. Dealing with discipline without spanking was obviously a big part of that training. My daughter is a great mom and my granddaughter is a great kid so whatever she does is working. I never figured it out. I remember asking my youngest if she wanted to be spanked one time when she was totally defiant and she’s like go ahead. Damn kids. lol.
My Mother used to make us stand against the wall and whip us with the coffee pot cord. My teachers and friend’s parents were extra special nice to me after those “incidents”. I swore off hitting children and cheating on a spouse at the age of ten. Never gonna happen.
You had a spouse at the age of ten?
… Hobbit
’twas a different century, cat’s-ass.